1.    Our security team has over 60 hours per security team member and we continually add to that every month with training specifically to determine a correct use of force and quantity . I have spoken to many police officers who say we have had more training than them in specific use of force and 3 of our 6 members are nra instructors as well, Safety and correctly utilizing force if needed is why we train continuosly.

2.    I am a police officer and I believe that our CCW holders participating on the security team should only act/react in circumstances surounding an active shooter. All other matters should be handled with our security team members that are sworn law enforcement and medical professionals.    Mon, May 3, 2010 10:42 AM    findFind…

First, he/she should demonstrate the CHARACTER required to carry a firearm, and I highly recommend ICE Training Company’s Combat Focus Shooting and Advanced Pistol Handling program as a MINIMUM STARTER COURSE, with more courses on use of force, legal issues, and other relevant training, with a minimum of a one-day class focusing on defensive use of firearms once a year as continual recertification training. Vigilantes? I totally think not. Responsible gun owners, yes.    Sun, May 2, 2010 2:29 PM    findFind…

4.    People who have CCW should carry their gun anywhere they are legally allowed to. But to be authorized to defend the church, additional training should be utilized.    Sun, May 2, 2010 10:17 AM    findFind…

5.    Certainly must have a CCW permit. Additioanlly, the church should have a Security Team Policy Manual with a Use of Force policy and then training in the policy and tactics that require judgment decisions.    Sat, May 1, 2010 7:44 PM    findFind…

6.    Many with a CCW and the church’s permission to carry, train regularly, often to much the same standards as a police officer. Many of us feel that protection of the flock is a calling from God, same as the calling to service and the five-fold ministry – a calling that is taken seriously. I doubt that Jeanne Assam, who saved untold lives in Colorado, would take kindly to being compared to the store owner used as the example in your video – or to being called a vigilante.    Sat, May 1, 2010 5:34 PM    findFind…

7.    Training should be ongoing and security person should have at least 5 years of previous experience.    Fri, Apr 30, 2010 6:11 PM    findFind…

8.    I believe that church security officers who carry a weapon are (or as least should be) for the protection of the congregation. If they are doing it for any other reason then they should not be carrying. Also, I believe special training is mandatory and should be continuing.    Fri, Apr 30, 2010 5:11 PM    findFind…

9.    Church security should have a CCW course and a 2 day tactical training and lecture course available from a number of high quality firearms training schools.    Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:25 PM    findFind…

10. I feel that they should have military (preferably military police) and/ or police training. Something beyond a simple CCW course or just years of familiarity with firearms.    Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:33 PM    findFind…

11.    Church security ‘guards’ should be hired, not trained in the church. Security teams at our church practice many situations, but do not use firearm training at all. Do our members carry weapons? absolutley. Do our security team members carry weapons? Sure they do. DOes our security team members carry weapons as part of some policy?
absolutely not.    Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:59 AM    findFind…

12.    I am a civilian Ministry of Helps Coordinator with a CCW license, no military, police or tactical training. Although our security force is not armed, we all have CC Licenses. Our Texas CC Classes specifically address reasonable force and the liabilities that one faces when chosing to use force. I feel that the CCW training is sufficient in combination with the screening that we perform to make sure that we have the most responsible people serving on our security team.    Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:36 AM    findFind…

13.    Since use-of-force laws are going to apply no matter what amount of training the person has, a CCW course should be more than sufficient.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:38 PM    findFind…

14.    Most of our security personnell are current or former law enforcement- but we have armed and unarmed nurses, EMTs, firefighters and the like as well.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 9:24 PM    findFind…

15.    A CCW course to begin with. The church security team should have frequent and repetious training on reacting to ALL situations, not just someone carrying a weapon (knife or gun or whatever…).    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 9:06 PM    findFind…

16.    The reference to those of us who volunteer to be members of a Church Security Team as “vigilantes” is absurd. Maybe a stronger understanding of current operating teams and their qualifications and training processes is in order for Mr. Hammar.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 6:58 PM    findFind…

17.    We have training in weapons use from some of the local off-duty police that attend our church. Memebers have to qualify with their weapon before they are allowed to carry in the church. I highly recommend training in weapons use before you even think about allowing any security team to carry. We also have every member of our team qualify with other members looking on so that if there are any questions or concerns they can voice them with a knowledge of how that person did on the range. We do not take carrying a gun lightly.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 3:55 PM    findFind…

18.    In our church, members who are off-duty sworn law enforcement officers may carry/use firearms as volunteers for our “Worship Center Security Team.” A concealed (or other) weapons permit alone, even with (extensive) training, is insufficient.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 3:47 PM    findFind…

19.    A team should have CCW training, tactical training, and should have some PPCT training or hands on training.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:23 PM    findFind…

20.    Only a select few are armed at our church. In fact those that are approved have prior police training and or military police training. Beyond that they have received excellent tactical training from a regional police training firm. Then we mandate they have ongoing range training, situational training and Airsoft training in our buildings.
I understand Hammer’s concerns of having ‘Bubba’ carrying a gun to church and then being told, and expected, to respond in an appropriate manner to a life-threatening situation. Without vital training the church very well could be making a horrible situation worse. Shooting at a still piece of paper is very different than returning fire in a tactically advantages manner in an auditorium setting filled with hysterical people – some of which are your own family.
As a church leader my other concern is that we might be sending ‘Bubba’ to a battle he is unable to win. I believe that just as there is a risk to the church from what an untrained ‘Bubba’ might do to others, I think churches may also be liable for asking ‘Bubba’ to enter into a life-threatening situation without the proper training to survive. His family may argue the church failed to provide him the needed training and therefore the church is liable for his death.
My philosophy is that training protects the church from both. If ‘Bubba’ has been properly trained and continues to train and prepare to respond to life-threatening situations he will respond as he was trained. I can’t pick when the bad guys come, but I can prepare (train) my team to respond to it in an appropriate manner minimizing the risk to others while maximizing their survivability.
We do not utilize vigilantes; we have a screened, handpicked and trained response team.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:30 AM    findFind…

21.    All of our saftey members are law enforcement officer we are made up of local, state and fedreal law enforcement officers. If a church has to use non-law enforcement persons, all of them should have to attend on-going training CCW, Tactical and any other training in law enforcement.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:17 AM    findFind…

22.I think a course of training would be good, though most states LTC requires knowledge on the legal use of force. I am taking a NRA protection in the home course, after taking a basic pistol course, and one of the instructors is a former Illinois State Trooper retired, both say that after taking these two courses we will be as well or better trained than most police officers. They also states that probably 50% of us were better shots than the average police officer, some of whom only go to the range before they have to requalify with their handgun.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:19 AM    findFind…

23.    Making a comparison of church security volunteers and the shooting incident in the drug store robbery is disingenious. All of the above qualifiers for carrying in church can be okay, “if the person possesses the the maturity, knowledge, training and physical skills that are required to handle stressful situations.” Picking one of the qualifiers and not checking into the volunteers actual abilities is asking for problems. Picking a security guard company or off duty police to better cover the legal aspects rather than determining that you have done your best to make your church safe, is providing less for the church than I find acceptable. If a church has qualified law enforcement members that have the skills to handle armed situations then that in my opinion is the way to go. If they do not have such individuals but have those that meet one or more of the qualifiers, then those people should be looked into thoroughly to see if they possess the qualities listed. I believe those qualities may hold up under scrutiny as well or better than the fact that a security guard of off duty police officer was hired based solely on that position.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 9:23 AM    findFind…

24.    Of course, the more training the better. Your sight offers a great deal of additional training beyone a ccw course. I also believe that a senior church leader needs to be very discerning about those chosen to serve on a security team. Choosing someone who might need anger management or have other issues that might cause him/her to respond in an immature or irresponsible way could lead to an unnecessary use of force. Thanks for what you guys bring to the church. Dave Tidwell    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 8:54 AM    findFind…

25.    We have several members who are police officers. We do ask them when they are here to come armed and only they and the church staff know. We do not believe that just anyone with a permit should come packing their gun to church.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 8:47 AM    findFind…

26.    I think that question #5 doesn’t just have one answer. Police Training (most would suffice), Military Training (some types would suffice), Tactical Training (some types would suffice), CCW Course (most are not even close to being enough). Situation always dictates and there are so many different courses, instructors, and specific focuses for all 4 types of the training listed that it is hard to just say that one if any would be adequate.    Wed, Apr 28, 2010 5:01 AM    findFind…

27.    We do not have “security guards”; we have “safety team members” which deals with the liability issue. Our members are comprised of police officers, ex-military, and non-professionals. As a minimum, a person in Tennessee would need a CC permit to carry. I think that people involved in security of others should have at least security guard training with professional leadership (police officer, etc.) follow-up training.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:44 PM    findFind…

28.    Our security team is all police officers or private security officers, licensed by the state. We have a couple of undercover security people who are only CC permit holders but have carried a weapon for more than 10 years. The video sounds like a lawyer looking for a problem.    Tue, Apr

27, 2010 11:16 PM    findFind…

29.    Church security should be left up to the professionals in the police/security industries. I am a licensed bodyguard but am not allowed to carry a firearm as a volunteer. We have paid police and security providing three layers of safety/security with the volunteers. Our church membership is 20,000 and growing.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:44 PM    findFind…

30.    A comprehensive”responding to active shooters” course at a minimum, on top of basic shooting skills / legal issues training like a CCW course    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:21 PM    findFind…

31.    Our church security trains 6 hrs. per month. They are trained by active LEO. We are not trying, and shouldn’t try to make them Police Officers, but they need extensive training in , use of force, shoot/don’t shoot situations, civil & domestic situations, rapid deployment, dignitary protection, self defence, weapons retention, and first aid/cpr.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:53 PM    findFind…

32.    Former military, with current tactical training and ethical training should be very capable of providing church security.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:27 PM    findFind…

33.    Probably nice if they have at least the training, including legal considerations, of a private security guard.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:20 PM    findFind…

34.    The basic RIGHT of self defense is spelled out clearly enough in the Constitution, enough said!    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:09 PM    findFind…

35.    not sure    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:25 PM    findFind…

36.    Our armed church security team has both police and civilians armed during our church services. I am the security team director. We go out of our way to see that our team is trained up to the standards of LE. Our team members must qualify every 6 months on a rigorous course of fire to be able to carry a firearm during church services. As a LE instructor and a civilian firearms instructor I can personally tell you that just because someone is LE does not mean they are better trained than ccw permit holders on our team. I have seen some LE who routinely shoot very poor and have very minimal gun safety discipline at best. Church security teams will only be as good as their training so this falls back on the security team director and the seriousness of the team members involvment in the program. Take note: that most LE agencies do not allow off duty officers to be involved in private security teams as such for the sole reason of liability towards the agency. Personally the use of the term “vigilantes” to describe professional security teams is a down right insult.

Kevin Roth
Arms To Bear
Church Security Team Director    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:18 PM    findFind…

37.    Regarding the pharmacist, if he would have put 2 in the chest and 1 in the head to begin with, he would have been ok. Thats not to sound brutal or overkillish, just part of my training. It doesn’t bother me at all what Mr. Hammar thinks though, he would have different thoughts if his family was looking down the barrel of a gun.
As far as specific training, I think a person should be proficient in a variety of firearms, and some training beyond a CCW course should be preferred. Our security team is made up of current military, former military, an NRA instructor, local police officer, volunteer police officer and others. All armed team members are required to qualify with their carry weapon at least twice a year. This is our policy, not our states CCW policy. We also interview potential members and will not accept them “just because” they have a CCW. There are actually members of our church that have a CCW that we will not allow on our team for a variety of reasons.
Mr. Hammars comments seem to be a blanket statement concerning all churches that have a volunteer security team. His video is uninformed and he clearly has an agenda beyond concern for the safety of the churchgoing community.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:11 PM    findFind…

38.    I believe in training. Our church security team is made up of the following: Department of Corrections personnel; Federal Bureau of Prisons personnel; Sherrifs Department personnel, and retired military. We train on a monthly basis, and do not allow just any individual with a concealed carry permit to become a part of the team. We do background checks, long application process, and we do check every reference listed, plus others that we personally check out. Without proper training you will have a bunch of vigilantes, and that is dangerous. We also go out and shoot on a regular basis as a team.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:13 PM    findFind…

39.    At least,or LEO training. The church security director needs to be open to uniform training among his selected security team. I am retired LEO!    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:59 PM    findFind…

40.    CCW and an advanced training course.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:57 PM    findFind…

41.    The idea that only a certified police officer should be the the only people allowed or capable of armed security is foolish. It smacks of elitistism!    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:56 PM    findFind…

42.    Any security officer armed or unarmed needs to go through a special training in properly handling church security issues.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:39 PM    findFind…

43.    The proper taining to do his/her job to the best of there ability. If this means police, military, armed security, and/or tactical then this type of training is sufficient. A ccw is not enuff training. I am an investigatior and have hours and hours of training. I would not stop someone who has a ccw from coming to church for worship not as a volunteer security team member.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:37 PM    findFind…

44.    I have had military training, military police training, CCW training and I am a CCW trainer and CCW instructor trainer    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:12 PM    findFind…

45.    Sounds like a lawyer to me.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:52 PM    findFind…

46.    Armed church security personnel are employed in the industry of Private Security. Our personnel at our church are equired to pass the same shooting standards as one of the highest Private Security firms in the country as well as our State Patrol. It all comes down to training, I know some well-trained church security guards and some poorly training police officers. A title means nothing.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:41 PM    findFind…

47.    As a former Marine and an individual with 20 + years law enforcement experience I train our church security team. I am 100% agreeable that police officers have the required training to respond to a crisis – especially in a church setting. Therfore we hired two “uniformed” police officers; one for the interior and one for the parking lot and traffic detail. The security members I train are trained as “observers” that are utilized as extra eyes and ears for the officers. I train the team to know what to look for and how to recognize potential problems. They use radios to call the officers for assistance. I know lawyers! The liability, and charachter assassination, my team and the church would face for a wrongful shooting is just too much. My team is also trained in first aid and CPR. They, too, are trained to evacuate the church and assist the officers when requested. Vigilantes, by definition, are criminals and take action upon perceived law breakers. Properly trained security members are no more than a “block watch” formed by individual neighborhoods. Do I agree that church security members should be armed? NO! Unless, they are current or retired police officers. Even military trained individuals are not properly trained to respond in a civilian setting.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:19 PM    findFind…

48.    There are police officers who never fire their guns during their career, and they only qualify once per year. Many civilians shoot more often and have better training, i.e., tactical training.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:59 PM    findFind…

49.    Those who are identified as “Church Security” and who are armed should receive enhanced training; preferably from well-trained LEOS. Training is not to law enforcement levels, but emphasis on agreed-upon guidelines for use of force should made. Further, a firearms aptitude test should be conducted to determine each individual’s ability with a firearm. Further, screen as recommended in you written materials should be conducted.

The speaker in the video, who clearly does not practice law in this area (he is a tax guy), clearly shows a bias from the beginning to armed member security. Further, he fails to recognize that many churches cannot afford to pay for on-site security (at least in adequate numbers) in good times, much less in tough economic times where many churches are struggling to make budget.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:06 PM    findFind…

50.    We do not have security guards, we have a security ministry. I am one of a few female security ministry members, with the men. Our Security Ministry team has undergone tactical police training, first aid, CPR, emergency response training. We have a most important medical team within the ministry of nurses, doctors, and EMT’S.
we have persons who are also presently serving in the military who have added their expertise. The only security ministry members who carry weapons are retired or presently working police officers. We do have alot of members who have gone through their concealed carry including some of our Pastors and wifes, but are not allowed to carry in church. We have made a point to cover the liability one takes on if they carry a weapon and is involved in an incident. They know that the responsibility would come back on them. Our church elders and pastors are the ones to make all final decisions that our ministry makes. We all work together as a team on every thing we do.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:04 PM    findFind…

51.    A church’s policy is probably going to be dictated by its insurance carrier and the administration’s experience or education concerning armed security. What ever policy that is does not make armed security into vigilantes. The person in the video addressed liability and never once addressed the issue of providing safety & security to the Body of Christ, The Church. He also apparently has something to sell based on the reference at the end to his sites. Some of his points may be valid in some instances, but you can not paint every situation with such a broad brush. Many of his points are just wrong in the jurisdictions I am familiar with. Finally, what does the drug store situation have to do with armed security at church; volunteer, paid, trained, off duty LEO, or otherwise?    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:36 PM    findFind…

52.    All of our security team are LEOs or retired Leos.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:35 PM    findFind…

53.    I belive the church should have there own training, and a team to evaluate each candiate. I have no police training, but I have more military training than most police officers ever get. Not to include personal range time. The idea that a badge makes a person more quilified is an uninformed train of thought, most combat veterans are put in more stressfull, quick decision making situations in just a fee days than most law enforcement officers ever see. So which is the best, Government trained hitmen, or local trained power in the badge officers.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:17 PM    findFind…

54.    I am a deputy sheriff and I am in charge of the security ministry at my church. I carry a firearm 99.9% of the time I am off-duty including while at church. I don’t think someone with a CCW is automatically a vigilante, thats ridiculous. That being said, I do think it is possible (maybe sometimes probable) that a armed private citizen may tend to overreact when confronted with violence. Either way, CCWs aren’t given out very easily in California and we don’t see it that much. Even if we did, I would be hesitant to allow any of those serving in the security ministry to be armed. Many are retired folks who don’t have the reaction time & hand eye coordination necessary to safely use a firearm in a stressful situation. The primary function of my security team is high visibility, observing and reporting. Also, I suspect that if I personally get into an armed confrontation, the circumstances may lead to me being considered “on-duty” but I don’t think it is automatic, only based on the circumstances of the specific incident. God bless!    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:16 PM    findFind…

55.    All church security should underg a comprhensive training program before “acting” in a security role. Any and all who carry concealed at church should have to undergo an even more comprehensive training in practical shooting, tactical and active shooter; as well as having to qualify on an approved NRA or law enforcement course, quarterly. Those in charge of the security ministry and the church administration needs to keep the records of those quals as well as all of the training.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:07 PM    findFind…

56.    CCW course along with continual training on ‘Use of force continuum’ and other security related continous training.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:02 PM    findFind…

57.    Only Safety team members who are certified Police Officers are allowed to carry a firearm on our safety team. I agree with the man with he says CCW people are not trained enought to be on any safety team. Our use of force guidelines are very rigid. We train each safety team member on every possible incident we can think of that could occure in our church.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:50 AM    findFind…

58.    Church specific security training is available from many sources and should be required. Also, state registration or licensing as an armed security officer should be mandatory at a minimum.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:06 AM    findFind…

59.    In Texas, an armed person cannot be a part of your ‘security team’. An armed person in the church can defend themselves and others as they would normally. I do agree that ccw course training does not train you for the stress and adrenalin rush of a situation.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:01 AM    findFind…

60.    He made some very good comments. In my state, California, an off duty peace officer can place themselves in an onduty status, and has a duty to respond if it is safe and appropriate. I would not allow a non peace officer on our team to carry a firearm, unless they were a retired officer with authorization to do so. It is too risky. I do not believe that any security course, or CCW course can adequately traing and prepare somone for a dynamic deadly encounter. In any case, if a shooting does occur, the law suites will no doubt be filed, and years of legal issues will take place. These are just my thoughts and preferences. I am looking forward to reviewing the results of the survey.
Blessings to all,
Jeff    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:59 AM    findFind…

61.    CCW course must include demonstrated proficiency in firearms safety, marksmenship, and appropriate use of force including deadly physical force. Additional security/tactical training is advised for armed church security team members.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:56 AM    findFind…

62.    I am a state licensed armed security professional and our team has mostly cops and a few former officers. I think that a certain level of professional competence is necessary in order to operate with cogence and alacrity. The average ccw person has a lack of operational knowlege reguarding armed tactics and crowd management. Tom, aka Greydog.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:53 AM    findFind…

63.    There should be some training, but the “fact” that an off duty policeman is more proficient is debatable. Having a police officer as a hireling, when the people of the church have a true investment in the well being of their church, just seems silly. But yeah, get some training. Firearms, mindset, and basic open hand.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:46 AM    findFind…

64.    Certainly some training, and continued practice training is necessary. However, I believe, the larger question deals with “character.” It’s the person not the experience that matters most.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:34 AM    findFind…

65.    An equivalent to law enforcement with updates and qualification follow up. Thses individuals must train together. Those alowed to carry in our church must meet these guidelines and have wrtten permission form church lesdership.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:22 AM    findFind…

66.    We have a “small” team that has examined most of the issues and have come to a reasonable conclusion that we do have the right to defend ourselves while at the same time are very aware of the responsibility to act in a controlled manner. The team was chosen carefully so as to not include any that are not mature but are careful in their handling of any crisis. We have trained ex military people (one who guarded cabinet members in the govt. Those who carry keep up with their training and are fully aware of what they can do vs. a police officer.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:22 AM    findFind…

67.    I am ultimately responsible for the safety of my family. On any given Sunday there may be 10 of my grandchildren in church. My oldest son and I both carry in church, but we have no official security team. We only have one member who is a police officer and he is reluctant to carry in a worship service. It is my inalienable right, God given right, to protect myself and my family with whatever weapon is available to me. If I lose my cool in a situation and use excessive force, then I am responsible for my own actions and I remind myself of this every day as I take my firearm out of the safe and secure it in my holster. I am a sheepdog and I will not be persuaded by any other man to leave my firearm at home while going to church or to the grocery store, or any other place.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:14 AM    findFind…

68.    SAME AS AN ARMED SECURITY GUARD FOR ANY BUSINESS. TRYING TO GET THE STATE POLICE AND CHURCH INSURANCE CO. TO COORDINATE SOMETHING FOR CHURCHES.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:03 AM    findFind…

69.    I answered this survey before I watched the Video. I’m Presently a Senior and School Administrator. I’m a former Law Enforcement Officer 20 years on the street, SWAT, Tactical Instructor, etc. I’m still a Certified Tactical Instructor and I do Contract Work for various Agencies. Yes! We do carry guns in our church and we train those people that carry guns. A safety brief is given at a minimum of every quarter. And ongoing training on a regular basis. I don’t care what Christianity Today thinks. What I care about is the safety of the people that I’ve been charged to Pastor. As a Pastor, one of my responsibilities is to make sure the flock that belongs to Jesus is well taken care of and safe. If the wolf comes in he needs to know that there is going to be a fight. What offends me is silly people who don’t understand the world that they live in. So what has God done? He has placed Christians in His body to take care of peole who don’t understand. When their life is saved in a church because they have trained security, they will be thankful. As soon as I send response or survey I’ll look at the video and move on. Take care, thanks, and remember there are people with Guns taht also carry a Bible. Which means we are doubly armed and we’re locked, cocked, and ready to rock(smile)! P.S. – Our Vigilantes are tactically trained and we train regularly!    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:02 AM    findFind…

70.    only mature level headed individulals should be used and with as much training as the church and or the individuals can afford.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:53 AM    findFind…

71.    I believe that the training should be on going. The firearms training in most cases is up to the person. The experience and knowledge of that person should be taken into account. Most of our team have been carrying weapons for years and train offen. The training should involve the law and use of force. The people are volunteers and they give their time and money to work on these details. As a former police officer if believe that the people on our team are as well trained as many police officers. Training in a police department is limited to 40 hours a year. We train as often as very other week. The term vigilantes should never be used to descibe a security team in a Church.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:53 AM    findFind…

72.    This is tough because training requires a senario of some type and we really can’t predict the senario. I hate the fact that I carry, however, i hate the fact that several people can die while we wait for the help the video implies. I have taken basic and advanced handgun training and plan to take a swat style tactical course in the the near future. If a team is armed and in place in a church they also should take a directed tactical course in that setting from some law enforcement agency that can train in shoot/don’t shoot situtations.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:49 AM    findFind…

73.    CCW + a skilled, tactically-trained policeman training those select few allowed by church board to discreetly carry (based on character, maturity, etc.) so that church has armed protection. We only have one police officer attending our church and cannot afford to hire off-duty police officers.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:48 AM    findFind…

74.    specialized duty requires specialized training that is specific to the needs of the church and obey the laws and standards of the state and community. Just having a permit is not enough, but requiring someone to have the full police academy training, while not a bad thing, is probably overly cautious. Is the goal of your team to protect your members ? or to avoid risk and keep the lawyers happy ?    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:46 AM    findFind…

75.    I really think all individuals who carry should have completed a CCW course and some type of tactical training. I also think if a church security team allows you to carry, you must be recertified with the firearm you carry at least every six months. I also beleive that teams should hold trianing not only for individuals to carry weapons, but also other valuable techniques that can be used before ever drawing your weapon.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:45 AM    findFind…

76.    For one, I think the terminology of “Safety team ” is preferable than Security guard. Members who are trained in recognition and prevention are better served and less liable to the church. If someone has a CC license I personally would not discourage the carrying of the weapon at church. Myself and another member are currently developing a program for safety at our church and this is still under review. I need more research before offering any further input. By the way, I am currently a peace officer.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:41 AM    findFind…

77.    CCW permit holders are not allowed by law in Louisiana to carry a concealed weapon in Church. I carry as a retired law enforcement officer at the request of the pastor and as head of the security team.
Joe Morris    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:40 AM    findFind…

78.    Haveing the weapon at the right place at the right time is the first step. Being trained and the ability and most imporatly the willingness to use it if it is needed is another issue entirely. The more training of course the better but in most circumstances that a gun would be used as a defence at church it will be obvious to everyone that it should be used and wheather it was approved or not in that instance there will be those who will be alive because a person with a weapon was there. More training is better but if a person knows how to use a weapon it is better than nothing.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:40 AM    findFind…

79.    As a 20 Retired Marine and also being tasked with the security detail of my Church. I do not feel comfortable at all with allowing civilians with a simple CCW course under their belt. The training is grossly inadequate to deal with the types of situations that may arise that require drawing a gun. Heck, I dont even like to go to the local gun range, as most civilians do not grasp the simple concepts of proper gun safety.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:37 AM    findFind…

80.    As you know, many States require that any person providing an armed security service, even to a private entity such as a church, must have that State’s Armed Security License. It’s that way in Florida, and many other states. In Florida a church can have “unarmed security” without a license, as long as those individuals are on the church’s payroll, and not armed. Once they become armed, in Florida, they must have a “D” Security Offier’s License, and a “G” Security Statewise Firearms License. In Folrida, if they are called “Security” they can not operate under their Concealed Weapons or Firearms License. Period!    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:27 AM    findFind…

81.    Those on our volunteer church security team that carry armed are CCW permit holders. All have qualified with our state’s DCJS in both security and firearm’s training. We carry licenses and certification that prove it. All must requalify every six months on the range. Our insurance company is aware and approves. We care about our church family and take every action to ensure their safety. We have partnered with our local police department in training and they are fully aware of our actions and have reviewed our written security plan. We have full endorsement from our local PD. We train, train and train and WE ARE NOT VIGILANTES. If I defend my home, am I a vigilante? Why would I be considered a vigilante if I defend my church and those that attend. Shame on those that think in that manner!!    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:22 AM    findFind…

82.    Anyone who carries a weapon in this situation likely has the responsibility to train on a regular basis and, if possible, will qualify at least annually.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:21 AM    findFind…

83.    I appreciate Mr. Hammar’s comments but also realize he, as do most, has an ‘agenda’ in presenting his material. It is obvious that it is not he purpose to defend nor recommend the use of anything but trained, albeit off duty, police officers as church security personnel. It is unfortunate that he has no room in his opinion for the grounded, well disciplined volunteer who has taken the time to do the work to acquire a Concealed Carry permit and who has also done the research, taken the education, and participated in the training that make that volunteer just as valuable an armed member of the team as the ‘professional’.

Too bad there’s no place for rebuttal or debate.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:15 AM    findFind…

84.    I am a law enforcement officer and head of our

VOLUNTEER security team at church. The issue I have is whether security is volunteer or hired. Our church’s policy is that we don’t discourage anyone from carrying concealed with a permit, but the church is not asking them to and each team member must realize that if confronted with a violent act and they choose to respond with deadly force, they will be relying on their training and they are acting personally and not on behalf of the church. We have spoken to attorneys and insurance adjusters about the issue, but we understand that the church and individual might still be liable in a law suit. It’s a touchy situation, no doubt, but I am prepared and willing to respond to a violent act to protect myself and others even if it means a lawsuit. The choice to carry and the choice to respond is up to the individual member.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:09 AM    findFind…

85.    “being allowed” to carry a weapon differs greatly from the church employing or tasking a church member with carrying a firearm for church security purposes. If a person has a valid CCW, then I see no problem with them carrying in church. I would not agree with the church “employing or tasking” these members with “armed” church security. That should be left to law enforcement, or professional security companies.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:01 AM    findFind…

86.    i am former military , and had the responsiblity of overseeing a church security team . 18,000 member church . we sought out training training on our own, we thought it that important to be as professional as possible. training also has the side bennifit of weeding out those not serious or comitted. we workek closely with local law inforcement , and kept an excellent record ! jim vandereedt    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:48 AM    findFind…

87.    Carrying a weapon in church has historically been not only a right, but a responsibility. It should be the church’s call as to how that responsibility is handled. For a security team, it would be good to have some degree of tactical training, since they are in a position of overseeing the security of the whole church body. And, of course, there would also be the liability and legal benefits.
Mr. Hammar was focused on the liability aspect of the church (from and insurer’s perspective), and missed the most important point – the security of the church. Does it make sense to risk the deaths of many innocent church and family members, only in the interest of avoiding a situation similar to the one he mentioned?    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:42 AM    findFind…

88.    Question #1 Our security force (members or regular attendees) is made up of a current FBI agent, three PA State Troopers-all active. No one else is encouraged to carry. These men are trained and train with each other. They know what to do and what they can expect from each other in an incident.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:19 AM    findFind…

89.    You can never have too much training.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:08 AM    findFind…
90.    I’m not part of any detail , I CC and I know of at least 4 LE that attend same service and I assume they CC.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:47 AM    findFind…

91.    Florida requires a Class G permit for armed security personnel–60 hours of training on top of a CCW. I think this is a reasonable requirement. However, our church uses hired, off-duty police (armed) during high-visibility services (Christmas mid-night mass, Easter, etc.).    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:41 AM    findFind…
92.    I think those who wish to be part of a church security group need tactical training and go to a fully tactical range where there are moving targets and where the shooter can move (under the watchful eye of a firearm instructor). Chances are the bad guy in the church is not going to be standing still. I would hope the people that are armed inside the church would only try to protect the people in their immediate area and not try to engage the bad guy from across the room unless their was no other way. People that carry in a church and are willing to do so much understand the law and in no time ever believe they are the police.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:31 AM    findFind…

93.    As a initial mininimum CCW Course supplemented by additional (semi-annual) in-service required fireams and use of force training provided by either trained police/sheriff department personnel and be required to demonstrate proficency in use of lethal weapons before being allowed to carry a firearm.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:26 AM    findFind…

94.    I believe training should be ongoing and never ending. Training should enclude both mental and phyiscal.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:10 AM    findFind…

95.    I think it depends on how much the job demands. There are those who have jobs to protect people (higher demand) and then just members who have loosely organized to deal with the unthinkable as members (less training but still need something)    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:42 AM    findFind…

96.    WE PERSONALLY HAVE WENT THRU HANDGUN QUALIFICATION WITH AN NRA INSTRUCTOR, ALSO HAVE HAD A LOCAL POLICE OFFICER COME IN & GO THRU DIFFERENT SENARIOS WITH OUR ARMED TEAM MEMBERS ON SITUATIONS, HOW TO REACT TO THOSE SITUATIONS, & HOW TO TAKE A GUY DOWN, ETC. OF COURSE ALL THE TRAINING ONE CAN GET THE BETTER BUT IN SOME CASES THIS IS NOT READILY AVAILABLE & I FEEL YOU DO THE BEST YOU CAN WITH WHAT YOU HAVE, BUT MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE CARRYING KNOWS SAFETY, IS CAPABLE TO HANDLE A FIREARM & I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THEM CARRYING.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:35 AM    findFind…

97.    I think they need both Physical and mental training before be armed Church security guards.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:16 AM    findFind…

98.    My church is very small (less than 30 per average Sunday). I always carry a gun and I’m the church security. No other members have permits. If we did have permit holders, they would be allowed to carry a gun, but not necessarily a part of the security team. A CCW permit should be the starting point for a security member to be armed in church. A sworn law enforcement professional should be running the team and conducting regular training with all the members so they would know how to respond. The church’s team leader should be responsible for his team, and if they aren’t suitable for the role, they should not serve in that capacity. I understand what this guy is saying, but I do not believe properly trained civilians who are legally carrying a weapon and serving in this capacity are vigilantes. On the other hand, I do think the pharmisist who head shot the accomplice, and then went back and shot him 5 more times in the stomach, acted inappropriately and with excessive force, based upon the little information shared in the video.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:32 AM    findFind…

99.    Enough to handle most situations that arise    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:25 AM    findFind…

100.    Caring G gun is a large responsibility. Oar team is not an “armed” team by policy.’ However, those w/ permits can carry their weapon if they so chose, but not at the request of the church. A lot of training and care should be given before using a weapon in a Church a any crowded setting. We do practice tactile shooting, or at least several of the ones I know who have their CC permits do.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:56 AM    findFind…

101.    We have a 6000+ congregation to protect. We run an “A” “B” and “C” ERT group. All “A” team members are former or active duty police or military and are armed. The “B” and “C” teams are just eyes and ears.All of our members are fully background checked. We also have training on a monthly basis and run through scenario training. We all take our role of Shepards protecting the flock very serious.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:35 AM    findFind…

102.    i feel that as long as the church is willing to except the responsibility of a private citizen working as an armed security then the minimum should be the requirements for a personal protection permit.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:15 AM    findFind…

103.    More than CCW Course. Ideally some training specifically designed for church security with annual follow-up training. Probably a very condensed version of police training covering tactics, legal issues, and possibly non-lethal tactics.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:38 AM    findFind…

104.    He did make a good point about having off-duty officers employed as security officers. Simply for the fact of liability. True, a citizen who lacks the appropriate “use-of-force” training may overcompensate and use unnecessary force. I believe that if a church has police officers whether active or retired, should be the only ones to carry a firearm in a church. Just my thoughts. My church does not have a security team in place and I am tasked with having to put a team together. One of my concerns was the civil liabilities that could result of such physical or deadly force used.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:09 AM    findFind…

105.    I understand what he trying to say, but I would not feel comfortable with alot of police. I was top gun at the police department, instructor for Army SRT & sniper, top gun for the Brigade, placed in competitions, retired Army 22 years Military Police several week long shooting schools, and CCW 25+ years. You have to be highly proficient and go through alot of “what if” scenarios. I think one of the bigest hurdles someone carrying has to over come is, what will I be able to do if I have to pull a firearm. That was a struggle I had to go through as a sniper. An entry team is different it is personal. What about taking a shot with your Brothers & Sisters all around you and the shooter. You have to have enough training to hit your target every time under stress.    Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:02 AM    findFind…

106.    The question is really about if the security program is offical or not. If it is official, then the church and the members of the team need to push for CCW, Police AND Tractical training. CCW is the minimum to carry, but further and on-going training needs to be a part of the program. At our church, we are trained in firearm use, tactical response, medical, hands-on (restraint), and we leverage airsoft for training scenarios to ensure we are safe, well trained, and can meet the needs of the congregation.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:29 PM    findFind…

107.    Armed volunteers need to be selected on training and experience for “Armed Security” CCW and other can carry as appropriate and only intervene if warranted, those carrying on church ground should abide by churches standard of response for those who choose to carry.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:28 PM    findFind…

108.    Our church met all Tennessee laws pertaining to being an armed security. Additionally, the church provided additional training specifically for a church environment and has continual remedial training throughout the year.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:24 PM    findFind…

109.    ccw minimum. Tactical advanced if available    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:24 PM    findFind…

110.    They should have a CCW permit, preferably additional training and have read and absorbed Mas Ayoob’s book about the use of deadly force.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:22 PM    findFind…

111.    Anyone who arms themselves to protect “others” must be highly traimned.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:21 PM    findFind…

112.    I am a 20 year LE officer who started a Security Team at my church. I did not start this without much prayer and conversation with church leadership. Although I have a few members of my team who are LE most of them are average guys and gals who have hearts to serve the Lord. This team has turned into a ministry. God forbid an armed confrontation happen at my church but we are ready if it does. If it never happens then God has put us together to support one another. My team members wish to protect the flock from the wolf who looks to hurt the innocent. They have at least 16 hours of firearms training, 8 hour certification course on PPCT self defense and we also run scenario based training. They are better trained than some LE agencies. I am offended by Mr. Hammar’s video and it really seems to me he has made an idol of “liability”.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:12 PM    findFind…

113.    I believe that a person should have a minimum of CCW training. If they have more training that would be better. I do not think it should be mandatory. If a person takes the responsibility to carry a firearm for protection of himself and others, they will not take it lightly.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:04 PM    findFind…

114.    I believe anyone acting as a Church security guard should be well trained. I personally carry in church all the time not as a security guard, but to defend myself and family just as I would anywhere else. The ignorance shown in the video is just another example of someone who doesn’t have a clue what ccw is all about. He could say the same for any location; supermarket, restaurant, mall or any location where there may be a large group of people. I suppose if he was rescued by some ccw he would call them a vigilante. We have at least a half dozen armed at our church at most services, and a total of over 20 ccw that attend. And we read that magazine, I am now ashamed to say.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 10:56 PM    findFind…

115.    State concealed license training is a bare minimum. Additional training/study in issues related to legal use of force, safe and effective firearm handling/use, unarmed combat, dispute resolution and shoot no-shoot are all desireable.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 10:55 PM    findFind…

116.    Believe or not, most cops aren’t the best shots. They understand the law, ok, but don’t get the range time that is necessary to be truly proficient. Alot of conceal carry people are better than LEO with handguns. Just look at the amount of round that are shot at a criminal and how few hit them. With the amount of training that is available it is reasonable to train volunteers who have a vested interest in their church then hire an off duty officer or security guard. This guys obviously hasn’t worked on too many budget committees to know how expensive that can be to a church.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 10:46 PM    findFind…

117.    Significant police experience on the part of the team leader. The remainder of the team should be very mature with at least a 8hr. CCW course.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 10:43 PM    findFind…

118.    I am retired law enforcement, firearms instructor.
Anyone who is armed needs to understand when deadly force can be used. I have faced many instances in my LE career where deadly force could have been used but was able to defuse the situation. Good people skills as well as firearms training should be at least a minmum.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 10:37 PM    findFind…

119.    CCW course, and more. Being a police officer in order to protect a brother in a church verses protecting a brother who has stepped out of the church onto a grocery store parking lot or other site requires the exact same responsibility and care than if inside a church! More people are prone to be relaxed, unaware, less alert and needing better protection in church than acually going to the grocery. Armed and ready watchmen should and need to stand ready for those willing and ready to kill us at church.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 10:35 PM    findFind…

120.    Just because I carry a Concealed Carry firearm does not immediately make me dangerous. Christianity relishes on self control this being said so why in the world would self control suddenly fly out the window when I have a gun on my person. This is like saying I’m going to watch porn if I stay in a hotel room while out of state for a church function. Do you not see the obsurdity of calling a armed Church goer a vigilanty. If Christ didn’t wish us to defend ourselves why did he tell his disciples to sell their cloaks to purchase a sword? Were they to call vigilanties? Peter acted out but again it proved Christ’s point of healing when he re-attached the ear of the servant.    Mon, Apr 26, 2010 10:34 PM    findFind…

121.    The more training the better.

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